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	<title>Comments on: Quick thought: The value of design, the purpose of portfolios</title>
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	<link>http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/design/quick-thought-the-value-of-design-the-purpose-of-portfolios/</link>
	<description>Happily riding my Vespa up the information super highway</description>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel Salzman</title>
		<link>http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/design/quick-thought-the-value-of-design-the-purpose-of-portfolios/comment-page-1/#comment-6627</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Salzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 07:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/?p=1755#comment-6627</guid>
		<description>So glad you get it, Adam! Thing is, we designers are very much to blame for our part of that misconception. We need to take mighty, righteous offense to this kind of thing and hopefully train it out of the marketplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So glad you get it, Adam! Thing is, we designers are very much to blame for our part of that misconception. We need to take mighty, righteous offense to this kind of thing and hopefully train it out of the marketplace.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam E</title>
		<link>http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/design/quick-thought-the-value-of-design-the-purpose-of-portfolios/comment-page-1/#comment-6624</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/?p=1755#comment-6624</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post. I&#039;ve been guilty of the &quot;for your portfolio&quot; tactic towards a friend of mine..only because I thought that&#039;s how it worked. This perspective shows me how it should be. I love the &quot;fixed by Jim&quot; analogy. Great eye opener - thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post. I&#8217;ve been guilty of the &#8220;for your portfolio&#8221; tactic towards a friend of mine..only because I thought that&#8217;s how it worked. This perspective shows me how it should be. I love the &#8220;fixed by Jim&#8221; analogy. Great eye opener &#8211; thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Nathaniel Salzman</title>
		<link>http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/design/quick-thought-the-value-of-design-the-purpose-of-portfolios/comment-page-1/#comment-6622</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel Salzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/?p=1755#comment-6622</guid>
		<description>Thanks RB,

There are a lot of dysfunctions in the client/provider relationship and this is but the tip of the iceberg. But rather than just rant about it, I would hope that this relationship will evolve and get better. Part of that, I strongly believe, is going to have to mean a lot of bravery on the part of the people who do this kind of work. Bravery in saying no. No, I will not work for free. No, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a good idea.  No, I won&#039;t move the deadline. No, you don&#039;t get a discount just because you haven&#039;t budgeted enough. Obviously there&#039;s a lot of give and take, but more often than not, unfortunately, it&#039;s mostly take. We designers are going to have to cowboy up and realize that we do ourselves no favors by compromising how we work and how much our work is worth. What have you gained by working for free? A decent paycheck? No. Respect? Certainly not! Credibility for future work? Not really. So yeah, don&#039;t give it away folks. It&#039;s worth too much — to all of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks RB,</p>
<p>There are a lot of dysfunctions in the client/provider relationship and this is but the tip of the iceberg. But rather than just rant about it, I would hope that this relationship will evolve and get better. Part of that, I strongly believe, is going to have to mean a lot of bravery on the part of the people who do this kind of work. Bravery in saying no. No, I will not work for free. No, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a good idea.  No, I won&#8217;t move the deadline. No, you don&#8217;t get a discount just because you haven&#8217;t budgeted enough. Obviously there&#8217;s a lot of give and take, but more often than not, unfortunately, it&#8217;s mostly take. We designers are going to have to cowboy up and realize that we do ourselves no favors by compromising how we work and how much our work is worth. What have you gained by working for free? A decent paycheck? No. Respect? Certainly not! Credibility for future work? Not really. So yeah, don&#8217;t give it away folks. It&#8217;s worth too much — to all of us.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/design/quick-thought-the-value-of-design-the-purpose-of-portfolios/comment-page-1/#comment-6621</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nathanielsalzman.com/?p=1755#comment-6621</guid>
		<description>OMG... Since you were so eloquent about lack of respect here&#039;s another side I&#039;ve ran into.

I love the &quot;I had an &quot;Art Class&quot; back in high school type with the &quot;So let&#039;s change out those block letters for a scripty letter thingy like... Hellvetical!&quot; mentality. An actual statement by a &quot;Set Decorator&quot; on the movie set for Soldier that I worked on.

I also love the mentality of event organizers, like a certain MINI Event, suggesting you be apart of a contest to design a new logo for that years event. &quot;You&#039;ll get a free printed Tshirt with your design on it.&quot; 1. you have folks with no knowledge of design, 2. they usually choose the most gawd awful design. Come to me ask me if I&#039;d like to do the work gratis don&#039;t ask me to be a part of a contest, what are we baking pies?

I think we have to point the finger at us the designers, mostly. As you suggested when we are starting in the biz we allow folks to use us for their benefit and we think employers will see that Nike ad you did for Chick&#039;s Sporting Goods and say... &quot;Wow, let&#039;s hire that fellow.&quot; Doesn&#039;t happen that way.

I did work for a large trucking firm for 5 years. We did some really fun work and the work, worked. Then... one of the sons, he had an art class in high school, got involved and started with &quot;we can make these designs work!&quot; &quot;Tell me again why am I paying you to do this stuff?&quot; After 1 year of that I told them to find another firm. A friend of mine who builds their trade show work says the new stuff is awful, they do it in-house, by the son. They haven&#039;t won a Best of Show since. I really thought they understood why sales were better, why 5,000 answered a postcard I did wanting new drivers not 500 like before I started doing their work, but in the end, it didn&#039;t, it was all about money they think they saved.

The above probably makes no sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OMG&#8230; Since you were so eloquent about lack of respect here&#8217;s another side I&#8217;ve ran into.</p>
<p>I love the &#8220;I had an &#8220;Art Class&#8221; back in high school type with the &#8220;So let&#8217;s change out those block letters for a scripty letter thingy like&#8230; Hellvetical!&#8221; mentality. An actual statement by a &#8220;Set Decorator&#8221; on the movie set for Soldier that I worked on.</p>
<p>I also love the mentality of event organizers, like a certain MINI Event, suggesting you be apart of a contest to design a new logo for that years event. &#8220;You&#8217;ll get a free printed Tshirt with your design on it.&#8221; 1. you have folks with no knowledge of design, 2. they usually choose the most gawd awful design. Come to me ask me if I&#8217;d like to do the work gratis don&#8217;t ask me to be a part of a contest, what are we baking pies?</p>
<p>I think we have to point the finger at us the designers, mostly. As you suggested when we are starting in the biz we allow folks to use us for their benefit and we think employers will see that Nike ad you did for Chick&#8217;s Sporting Goods and say&#8230; &#8220;Wow, let&#8217;s hire that fellow.&#8221; Doesn&#8217;t happen that way.</p>
<p>I did work for a large trucking firm for 5 years. We did some really fun work and the work, worked. Then&#8230; one of the sons, he had an art class in high school, got involved and started with &#8220;we can make these designs work!&#8221; &#8220;Tell me again why am I paying you to do this stuff?&#8221; After 1 year of that I told them to find another firm. A friend of mine who builds their trade show work says the new stuff is awful, they do it in-house, by the son. They haven&#8217;t won a Best of Show since. I really thought they understood why sales were better, why 5,000 answered a postcard I did wanting new drivers not 500 like before I started doing their work, but in the end, it didn&#8217;t, it was all about money they think they saved.</p>
<p>The above probably makes no sense.</p>
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